Template:Forgive them

"forgive them for they know not"
You have to forgive yourself before you can truly forgive others. And you have to forgive everyone before you reap the full benefit of forgiving yourself. This is more obvious and doable when we leave judgment to God.
it is very difficult to leave judgement to God unless you believe there is a God. You cannot know that deeply in yourself until you "Know thy self." You cannot know yourself unless you come and stand in the light and flee the darkness.

Forgive them

• Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

There have been some controversial interpretations of this verse Luke 23:34. There really is no valid reason for it since by standard Greek it is actually fairly cut and dry.

It has been suggested that Luke 23:34 should be translated "father forgive them not for they know what they do" rather than the commonly accepted "forgive them for they know not what they do".

If "not" modifies "know" then "they know not" if it modifies "forgive" then Jesus is asking God to "forgive not".

Alternative

This alternate translation is drawn from the fact if you look at an interlinear translation you will see the Greek word order as "father forgive them not for they know what they do" beneath the Greek terms in the order of their appearance in the text.

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
3588	1161	2424	3004	3962	863	846	3756	1063	1492	5101	4160.
ὁ	δὲ	Ἰησοῦς	ἔλεγεν	Πάτερ,	ἄφες	αὐτοῖς·	οὐ	γὰρ	οἴδασιν	τί	ποιοῦσιν.
~	and	Jesus	said	Father	forgive	them	not	for	they know	what	they do

Many languages use different word order than English. Some put a verb last in a sentence, like Latin, or will put verbs first like in the famous German example of "Throw the cow over the fence some hay" which can create an alternate meaning when translated because of German word order versus English word order.

Many aspects of the syntax of Greek have remained constant throughout its history. Sometimes people can get lost in linguistics, but in this case, trying to understand the syntax and the words that are used is fairly clear. There is, in fact, another reason for the confusion which we will all have to personally address eventually.

Greek may use word order, not so much for syntax, but for what linguists might call discourse planning. It has been suggested this is customarily done in order to let the reader or listener know what the author or speaker is talking about and what the most salient information is. There is a very consistent way of doing this in Greek.

Postpositive

According to William Hersey Davis' Beginner's Grammar of the Greek New Testament, the Greek word gar (γὰρ) which we see as for is a conjunction or 'cause' word which always considered to be 'postpositive'. Because it is postpositive it can never come first in the clause it begins therefore with the Greek word "not" would precede the word "for".

There is actually no real reason for postpositives to occupy the position they do, except for the fact that they do.

Japanese, for example, has postpositions which come after the nouns, but do the same job as English prepositions. It is simply the way the language developed. There is really very little if any debate among Greek scholars concerning the translation of Luke 23:34.

Because of the consistency of the Greek language and these basic rules concerning postpositive words, there is no doubt that the translation should read in English,

"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do".

Forgiveness in time

Yet, some continue to try to explain that Christ Himself taught, and as the Old Testament testifies, forgiveness is based upon repentance and then ask did these Jews ever repent of their sin?

Then they proclaim that they never did, which often leads to an excuse for anti-Semitism. The truth is while there may be collective sin each person's sin must be judged individually. So, the idea that we can blame the modern Jew for the crucifixion is absurd.

Besides, there is evidence that Caiaphas may have repented and little or no evidence that other Jews did not repent. After all, there were only a few hundred Jews actually involved in the crucifixion and many of them only played a small part.

Considering the fact that John the Baptist was not even sure that Jesus was the Messiah and most of the Apostles did not know for sure who He was it would seem reasonable that the Pharisees actually did not know what they were doing.

Even Peter when addressing those who caused the death of Christ brings up the idea that they did not know what they were doing.

• Acts 3:17 "And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did [it], as [did] also your rulers. 18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled."

And then continues to call them to repentance, telling them that Jesus was here to fulfill a mission that would include blessing them as well with His death.

• Acts 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:... 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities."

Even Paul proclaims they did not know what they were doing in 1 Corinthians 2:8.

• 1 Corinthians 2:8 "Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

Certainly, all the Jews were not to blame and many of them began to follow Jesus and became the Ministers of His Church, like Joses who became Barnabas, and many others.

• Acts 6:7 "And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith."

Way back in Isaiah 53:12 it was prophesied that the Messiah would make a prayer for the forgiveness of those who would be his transgressors even unto death.

• Isaiah 53:12 "Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Absolution or fasting

Forgiveness of men is not the absolution of God. Forgiveness is fasting or rejecting the temptation to judge for ourselves, to decide good and evil for others.

Forgiveness by us is leaving judgment to God who is a righteous judge. This is one of those Mysteries of the Universe that makes our Spiritual DNA important. If we trust in God we trust in His Judgment and His righteousness.

If we usurp God and seek to punish people with our own judgment we are interfering with, even usurping God. If you desire to judge for God do not expect God to intervene on your behalf. Many people say they believe in God and even have a form of godliness but they deny the power of God to judge by failing to forgive and wanting to pass judgment on others.

Protection v Judgement

We are to love our enemy and judge not lest we be judged. We are to attend to the weightier matters but for the purpose of protecting the innocent not punishing the wicked.

The spirit of the times have created a prison system that is supposedly there to punish sinners against society or at least the lawmakers of governments. They put someone in jail for 5 years at a cost to society of a quarter of a million dollars for doing no damage or injuring no one. The excuse this by saying they must pay their debt to society which has gone farther into debt in the process.

The governments of the world are to punish the wicked but the wicked is often the people who create those governments. The government of God leaves punishment to God and uses its courts only to protect the innocent. It certainly would not punish all of society with a goal of vengeance.

We are to be in the world but not of the "world". God has power to bring his judgment upon those who abuse or seek to abuse us. We do not have to be the judge of others. We may forgive and leave, trusting in God, to He who made us and is making us daily as we submit to His will.

Forgiveness by us is an essential part of the process of seeking the Kingdom of God and His righteousness.

If the usurpation of God is judgement is found in judging or ruling over others the forgiveness is leaving judgement to God. But the test of our forgiveness is the administration of fervent charity.

A dependence upon legal charity is a betrayel of Christ as well as the policy that makes us human resources.

This is why to be faithful to The Way of Christ we, as His Church, must have a daily ministration showing mercy to all with mercy rejoicing against judgment but standing fast in good works toward one another in daily sacrifice.

Forgiveness and mercy by us allows God to bring in His powers and mercy and His righteous judgment.