Modern Christians
It amazes me having studied what the early church was doing, what the world was doing and what the conflict was between the world and the early Christians that the Modern Christians could be so confused about the simplicity of the gospel of Christ and that Paul was preaching exactly what Christ taught and said so several times.
The modern Christian is often seen doing daily what those early Christians were persecuted and even killed for not doing. We will also cover all this in our series on "that word you use" like religion and faith.
The following is a conversation on Facebook that started with the idea that "sin separates man from God but that all sin is the same. Sin is sin and Jesus Christ died for all of our sins.The remedy for sin is believing the Gospel of the Grace of God. Jesus paid for every sin..."
Of course Jesus died that we might be saved and it is clear the unrepentant sinner is not saved no matter what he says. The topic is sin and of course Bob has a hard time getting that what I post is on the topic of sin because he wants to think that the daily sin of do-nothing-just-believe Christians is sin and unrepentant sin and therefor is not forgiven and therefor they remain doers of iniquity and will be told to depart.
We begin shortly after Steve's post was posted by Bob.
BOB And yet... many people say God is "not fair". (sigh) October 23 at 6:59am · Like · 1
Beth: the word "fair" is not in the Bible. Life is not fair. I always say, "Life is tough.....and then you die"....then add, "so you better know where you are going". October 23 at 8:37am · Like · 1
BOB: God made it possible for all men to be saved through Jesus Christ. That's equitable and fair in my book. Even when Israel was under the law God declares...
Ezekiel 18:25-32 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is...See More October 23 at 8:59am · Like · 1
BOB: But what you said is true "life isn't fair"... and it is tough and unless Jesus comes for the church first we who can read this are all going to die. October 23 at 9:14am · Like · 1
Gregory Williams: Actually fair is in the bible about 50 times including Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. October 23 at 8:51pm · Like
Beth: Yes, my mistake Greg. Sorry....should have worded that differently. Yesterday at 6:57am · Like
BOB: The point of the first post by Steve is that sin separates man from God but that all sin is the same. Sin is sin and Jesus Christ died for all of our sins.The remedy for sin is believing the Gospel of the Grace of God. Jesus paid for every sin m...See More Yesterday at 9:18am · Like
Gregory Williams: Breaking the law as a matter of personal policy is not repenting. Doing the opposite of what Christ said while claiming to believe the gospel of Christ makes one a worker of iniquity and often under a strong delusion. How can we pray to men who call themselves benefactors for their benefits when we know those benefits are provided by taking from our neighbor and then pretend to love our neighbor? How can we say we love Jesus when we are doing the opposite of what he said?
Luke 22:25 "And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall not be so:"
What part of "ye shall not be so" is hard to understand?
The good news is that you can repent and seek the kingdom of God at hand and the righteousness of God. But if you choose not to repent and continue to apply for and desire the benefits of men who exercise authority one over the other at the expense of your neighbor then it would appear that you do not believe in Jesus nor that you love your neighbor and that you are really just under a strong delusion. 14 hours ago · Like
Beth: You cannot pick and choose which scripture you are going to use and obey for your own benefit and ignore others. That is delusional as well. We need to take the Bible as a WHOLE and believe it in it's entirety. 14 hours ago · Like · 1
Beth: That also means not using the "system" one is so against to "serve their own belly". Don't use the dollar if you are not willing to pay the tax on it. Even Jesus paid taxes and used currency to live. 14 hours ago · Like
BOB: So, who here advocates breaking "the law as a matter of policy"? However, everyone I know breaks the law... and... " For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."(James 2:10) That means that I am guilty of all... where does that leave you?
Because we are all sinners we need a Saviour. The Good News is that Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself, was buried, and rose again from the dead for our justification. Sin a little, sin a lot "we are all in the same boat".
A person may brag that they are better law keepers than someone else... but that certainly won't save the boaster. 14 hours ago · Like
Gregory Williams: We should pay all the taxes we owe even when we are paid cash for something we sell. But I was not talking about taxes or paying them. I was talking about seeking, applying for and taking benefits from men who call themselves benefactors but who exercise authority one over the other instead of living by faith, hope and charity and the perfect law of liberty. Those who are seeking the latter are seeking what early Christians did and those who seek the former are doing what the Pharisees were condemned by Christ for doing. 13 hours ago · Like
BOB: I see we are going to deviate from the topic. Point being we are all sinners. We are all in the same boat.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not....See More 13 hours ago · Like
Gregory Williams: There are two boats. One for sinners and one for repentant sinners who have turned around and are seeking the kingdom of God and his righteousness. We know by Christ's own words that some will think they are saved but are actually workers of iniquity. Those, though they say they believe, will be told to "depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
This division appears by Christ's words to have to do with the way you take care of the needy of your society. That would also fit with what Paul said about love and charity.
Pure religion is taking care of the needy by charity rather than by forcing the contributions of your neighbor to provide social welfare as is the policy of those men who call themselves benefactors.
The early Church as well as ancient Israel took care of all the needy with free will offerings. The early Church in America did the same but the modern Church has turned that duty over to men who exercise authority one over the other. To desire benefits at the expense of your neighbor is to covet your neighbor's goods through the exercising authority of those not true benefactors. Coveting was prohibited by God, Christ and Paul.
It is certainly not love. In truth it is iniquity and the Pharisees were condemned for doing it and "Making the word of God of none effect ". If modern Christians want to continue to do what the Pharisees were condemned for then they hardly should be claiming to have repented muchless love Jesus. 12 hours ago · Like
BOB: Doing good works is always a good thing but doing good works won't save anyone. Grace through faith will. No matter how large are small the sin may be it will condemn us all.
Titus 3:4-6 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward...See More 4 hours ago · Like
BOB: "No matter what you have done, no matter where you have been and no matter what you were doing while you were there" God will save you if you trust in the finished work of Christ for your salvation. There are no big sins in the dispensation of the Grac...See More 4 hours ago · Like
Gregory Williams: Not those who say they trust in the finished work of Christ but those who actually trust in Christ. Again Christ warned us that may would be deceived into thinking they new Christ and trusted in him but he warns us that they would be counted as workers of iniquity. 3 hours ago · Like
Gregory Williams: Christ clearly judged those he brought in and those he told to depart based on the nature of what they were doing. Over and over Jesus, John and James told us we will know by what they do not what they say they believe. If we are not doers of the word but instead making the word of God to none effect by our traditions then our claim to faith may fall short. Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. None of this is saying we are saved by works. But if we are doing contrary to Christ's words then we are not following Him nor keeping his commandments.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. 3 hours ago · Edited · Like
BOB: Sounds like we better heed that warning and trust what Christ has done for us and not in what we do for Him.
Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that...See More 3 hours ago · Like
Gregory Williams: I Quote Christ and you quote Paul out of the context of the gospel of Christ. Paul wrote people who were seeking to follow the gospel not people who just say they believe and then pray to men who call themselves benefactors, covet their neighbors goods and cursed their children with the public debt of those benefactors.
Christians did not trust in the Corban of the Pharisees nor the Qorban of Rome. They provided for one another in love. It is not about saved by works it is about repenting and returning to the way of the Father in Heaven.
The Father of the prodigal son would not have come out to meet him if the son never tried to leave the pig mire. 2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 3 hours ago · Like
BOB: There is no doubt Jesus when He came to Israel told the Jews to keep the law. The Kingdom program that is for Israel is for the time being postponed. A new Gospel and a new apostle was given with a message that was a mystery. This message was to Gentil...See More 3 hours ago · Like
BOB: Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
I forgot to add this to my last post... Through their (Israels fall) Sa...See More 3 hours ago · Like
Gregory Williams: There are not two gospels. Paul preached the gospel of Christ. No where does Christ or Paul preach that it is okay to covet your neighbor's goods while claiming to believe in the finished work of Christ. Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Yet modern Christians trust in the benefits of men who take from their neighbor and apply for benefits that drive our children into greater and greater debt. Not because they have to but because the Church is not doing what it did from the beginning. The Church is not doing it because it is full of people who think they can save themselves with a thought. 3 hours ago · Like
BOB: Coveting your neighbors goods is not the Gospel it is a commandment. No Christian promotes sin. A Christian believes his or her sins are paid for... all of them. We trust in Christ that He paid for our sins on the cross and by believing and in trusting...See More 2 hours ago · Like
BOB: Saved people know they can't save themselves with a thought or anything else. Saved people believe they are saved by grace through God's gift. Good News!
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2 hours ago · Like
Gregory Williams: But a Christian is a follower of Christ, He is someone who loves Christ. If you are not doing what he said the evidence shows you do not really love Christ. What many Modern Christians have done is reinvent Christ with their private interpretation of Christ. They reject what he said and imagine that Paul was saying all you have to do is think a thought. They think the word believe has to do with accepting an idea in your head and repeating it over and over. Belief means a conviction that compels actions.
Modern Christians what to believe they trust in Christ but they actually worship the image of Christ they created in their own heads. That way they can be workers of iniquity and actually think they are doing what Christ said and that they love him. This is why in 2 Timothy 3:1 it says This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
If everyone was actually believing in Christ the world would not be in the present state that it is in. May of those saying they are Christians are actually working against the ways of Christ.
This is why most of these Modern Christians have gone astray and returned to the mire and made a mess.. 2 Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
It is the watered down do nothing gospel of the Modern Christians that excuses covetousness, and sloth and avarice. Those that do believe know they are saved by grace but it is Christ who establishes who believes and who is just saying they believed and he told us what to look for to determining if we are just fooling ourselves.
Again the early Church took care of all the social welfare of the people in free assemblies by charity alone. They had to because when they got Christ's baptism they were kicked out of the social welfare system that was making the word of God to none effect. The modern Christian does not do that any more, they rely on the men who call themselves benefactors but exercise authority one over the other, taking from your neighbor so you can get your benefits. That was the Corban of the Pharisees. That makes the modern Christian who says he believes a worker of iniquity and not a true believer in the righteousness of God nor a truster in Christ. Just another soul under a strong delusion. 2 hours ago · Like
BOB: Well, it sounds like you have your work cut out for you. 2 hours ago · Like
Gregory Williams: We are all saved by grace if we will repent and forgive and seek the righteousness of God... Work and life are the same. All that is needed is true repentance and then the work comes naturally because of true faith. You know there is no repentance when the life/work does not match the ways of Christ.
Modern Christians have more in common with the traditions of the Pharisees who forced the contributions of the people who signed up for the temple Corban set up by Herod the Great.
Christ was crucified because he preached against such system and opposed them in his teachings. The true Christians were persecuted because they would not sign up for the Qorban of Rome.
If the Modern Christian truly repented and start loving one another the way the early Christians did it then they would live as Christ said, by faith, hope and charity and the perfect law of liberty. And not be trusting in men who exercise authority to provide them with rewards and benefits.
But they have not repented and their deeds tell us that they care not for the righteous ways of John nor His Baptism, Nor Christ and his kingdom of righteousness.
They and their pastors speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the comfort of their own flesh, through much wantonness of the benefits and gratuities of the world being of the world, All those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
In 2 Peter 2:18 the word error means deceived and delusion, While they promise them liberty from truly living by faith and charity and love of Christ and His ways, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. This is why they are again in bondage because they do not worship him in spirit and in truth but only with their lips ... For though Christ freed them after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. and again coveted their neighbor's good and become the slothful... so it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire...
They, the modern Christians who do not walk in the ways Christ taught, have their repentance cut out for them.., 13 minutes ago · Edited · Like
Gregory Williams: I know it is hard to believe so many Churches have missed the simplicity of loving one another rather than asking men who exercise authority to take from their neighbor so that they can have all those free benefits from health care to free education, or some one to take care of our parents so that we are not burdened with that job but after all we were told in 2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. and in 2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.... 5 minutes ago · Like
Williams: That is good these modern churches help the poor and do so with free will offerings but that is not what the early Church did. They did "all" social welfare for the congregants who believed in the gospel of Christ. The sought no public charity because that was prohibited by Christ and it was not real charity. Any time a contribution was forced by some one who could exercise authority Christians refused the benefit. This is why they were persecuted and killed.
Taking care of all the needy of the followers o Christ with nothing but free will offerings was part of the job description of the early Church ministers who were appointed the kingdom. That is what James called "pure religion". Religion was how you took care of the needy of your society. In the last two hundred years people have redefined religion. The definition of the word religion has changed in the minds of modern society since the Constitution.
Today, religion is defined as “a set of beliefs.” whereas a hundred years ago it was defined as an “outward act”. According to John Bouvier's 1856 Law Dictionary which was adapted to the Constitution of the United States, religion “in practice” consists of “the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men.” The modern Church says there is nothing you have to do but just have a set of beliefs but religion at the time of Christ meant how you performed that duty to take care of the needy of your society. The Pharisees took care o themn with a system of Corban that was forced if you signed up for it with the baptism of Herod but if you got the baptism of John and the Apostles who did it by sharing in charity and love. If you got that baptism of Christ you were cast out of the welfare system run through the temple built by Herod. We know this by John 9:22. Remember the temple was a government building in Judea. Herod got the funds to build it by his new deal social welfare system that forced the offerings of the people.
Those types of systems have come and gone over the centuries but were condemned by God and the prophets because they are covetous and not based on charity which is also translated love.
You see according to James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world."
The word world there is one of 5 different words translated world in the new testament. That word was defined " 1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government ". You see in order to practice pure faith and pure religion you need seek to not take any benefits from men who call themselves benefactors but exercise authority one over the other because if you do then your religion is "spotted" which is from a word meaning defiled. This is where the modern Church has lost its way and departed from the ways of Christ. Just 200 years ago in America the church was the entire social welfare of the people but today it will show a "form of godliness, but denying the power thereof" to take care of all the welfare of the people and we are told: "from such turn away."
You see what has happened is there is 'false prophets also among the people, even as there are false teachers among you, who privily have brought in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.' And 2 Peter 2:2 goes on to say "And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."
You see Americans have become merchandise, human resources, surety for debt just like the Jews at the time of Herod and Rome but Christ set them free so the Christians were no more Greek and Jew but could say they had another king one Jesus. Modern Christians can say that with their lips but their deeds and actions say something else. Were early Christians died rather than sign up for the public religion of Rome that offered free bread at the expense of their neighbors by way of men like FDR and Obama who called themselves benefactors but exercise authority one over the other. Modern Christians have followed those pernicious ways instead of seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Yes it may seem judgmental to say "Modern Christians" aren't doing what Christ taught.
But if people have strayed it is the job of the ministers of Christ to point out where they went wrong. We are to rebuke those we love according to Revelation 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." Visiting the widows and orphans was not dropping by with a card or flowers but providing for them so they did not have to go to those benefactors who exercise authority one over the other because their charity entangled the people in bondage because it was based on "one purse" and established by force.
This modern spotted religion of Modern Christians has 'entangled the people again with the yoke of bondage' because of their pernicious ways. I know many Christians are not far from the kingdom and their hearts are not far from Christ but like prodigal sons we must turn around [Repent] and head all the way back to our Fathers house to be his servant and not be forever studying but never coming to a full knowledge of the truth. We need ministers who are awake to the fullness of the gospel and teach the whole gospel and the truth about what Christ appointed us as his followers to seek and do.
This will all be the topic of 3 hours of radio broadcast today and is already explained in detail on our websites and in our books where we actually quote the transcripts of the trials of early Christians who were executed for not signing up for universal health care in Rome and other social welfare schemes set up back then when the republic of Rome went socialist and became despotic.
History does repeats itself and we should learn from it. We have a choice.We cannot change the course of history but we may change our role in it.
All roads lead to Rome and all roads lead to the kingdom of God. The question is which way are you going? Do modern ministers know and teach the way of Christ or have they been deceived too. It is really simple ... Loving one another is how we care for one another and if we are not doing it like Christ said we are not following him or His Way. Time to turn around and start seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness with our whole heart mind and soul.
I think it is important to let those modern Christians know that they have listened to those ministers who creep into houses, and lead captive silly men and women laden with sins who want to think they are right and keep seeking the benefits where Christ said not to go. I do you read your posts. Giving a little is token charity is not what we are told?
The Church did it all.
Social welfare from the government is what supports most of the poor in the churches of today. The Churches use to do it all and if they did it all for those who say they believe which means those who say they believe must give enough to the church to make it happen, then they would be actually following Christ and doing the will of the Father. They are not and Bob and the pastors who wont or are afraid to point out the difference between what Christ actually said and the early Church was doing are perpetuating the lie. Christ did die for all our sins but you still have to repent. One of those sins is coveting your neighbors goods through men who exercise authority. This was a major theme of the gospel and part of Christ's specific instructions. Many Modern Christians still hope to apply for their benefits from those false benefactors... They will have to because the Church is not doing what Christ said or preaching what he told us to do. That sin needs to be rebuked. So I am on topic because those sins without distinction are not forgiven unless you repent.